1
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:21,830
[Music]

2
00:00:44,470 --> 00:00:42,020
explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride

3
00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:44,480
into the world of the paranormal

4
00:00:52,060 --> 00:00:47,760
strap yourself in as we traverse the

5
00:00:55,180 --> 00:00:52,070
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

6
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:55,190
ghosts Lost Worlds

7
00:01:01,430 --> 00:00:57,570
cryptozoology as well as other

8
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:01,440
dimensions it's time to take back the

9
00:01:09,650 --> 00:01:06,570
night now your electrifying hosts of

10
00:01:16,969 --> 00:01:09,660
exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley and

11
00:01:20,389 --> 00:01:16,979
team sports my god Tim what's gotten

12
00:01:23,150 --> 00:01:20,399
into you are you why are you making

13
00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:23,160
those weird noises and and and what's

14
00:01:30,650 --> 00:01:27,600
with those faces I'm concentrating on

15
00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:30,660
become a master shape-shifting I have

16
00:01:36,109 --> 00:01:32,729
learned a technique from Maria dandiya

17
00:01:41,090 --> 00:01:36,119
who is a certified shaman she has taught

18
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:41,100
me the way she she must have taught you

19
00:01:45,710 --> 00:01:43,650
right because your facial features are

20
00:01:48,260 --> 00:01:45,720
are getting even more weird that they

21
00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:48,270
normally are and you're you're starting

22
00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:50,729
to look like like some kind of vicious

23
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:54,150
wolf and and I'm just getting scared so

24
00:01:57,999 --> 00:01:56,130
I'm gonna have to consult with our guest

25
00:02:00,830 --> 00:01:58,009
tonight to see what's going on because

26
00:02:04,460 --> 00:02:00,840
I'm just afraid that you may not be able

27
00:02:08,810 --> 00:02:04,470
to turn back into a human if you

28
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:08,820
shape-shift all the way didn't mean to

29
00:02:15,729 --> 00:02:11,130
scare anybody I was trying to turn into

30
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:15,739
a colleague so someone would pet me oh

31
00:02:20,650 --> 00:02:18,810
okay okay well just just stop for a

32
00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:20,660
minute at least till we get back to the

33
00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:32,319
all right well you're looking better now

34
00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:35,489
well I always try to look my my best

35
00:02:43,310 --> 00:02:37,769
especially when I'm on the air even if

36
00:02:45,589 --> 00:02:43,320
even if it is just the audio go ahead go

37
00:02:48,770 --> 00:02:45,599
ahead - ever well no I was just going to

38
00:02:52,310 --> 00:02:48,780
ask the usual buzz question how you

39
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:52,320
doing out there in Jasper Indiana

40
00:02:59,180 --> 00:02:55,530
I'm doing ok but you know this is this

41
00:03:02,060 --> 00:02:59,190
has been a kind of a bad week because

42
00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:02,070
we've we've lost a couple of our friends

43
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:08,400
I mean rosemary ellen guiley passed away

44
00:03:13,940 --> 00:03:11,010
oh my goodness yep she had that she

45
00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:13,950
written I think the list I looked up

46
00:03:18,170 --> 00:03:15,870
something like 52 books and of course

47
00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:18,180
she had been on our program several

48
00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:22,590
times and we used to issues of come to

49
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:27,510
the New York 14 Society meetings over

50
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:30,570
here right next door to where I am of

51
00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:32,610
course it's a vacant lot now but it

52
00:03:38,330 --> 00:03:35,100
wasn't then and then she would to join

53
00:03:41,630 --> 00:03:38,340
John keel and Peter and myself over in

54
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:41,640
this case for a meatball sandwich and

55
00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:44,090
we'll say I'd like mr. because she was a

56
00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:47,040
she I think she's with the Angels now

57
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:48,900
because she probably written more books

58
00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:52,530
on angels and than anything else

59
00:04:00,050 --> 00:03:56,100
we also another kind of associate of

60
00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:00,060
ours one of our authors Tracy at climate

61
00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:03,120
Raymond yeah yeah yeah passed away under

62
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:06,360
what we think might be mysterious of

63
00:04:13,250 --> 00:04:09,330
circumstances but we still don't quite

64
00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:13,260
have the the information on that yet

65
00:04:17,690 --> 00:04:15,840
although we're checking into it she was

66
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:17,700
the author of a book that we published a

67
00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:20,370
very controversial one mind controlled

68
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:23,670
sex slaves of the CIA which we put out a

69
00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:27,930
couple of years ago and it's it's still

70
00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:30,240
doing very well it as they saying the

71
00:04:35,659 --> 00:04:33,150
publishing business it has legs and

72
00:04:38,330 --> 00:04:35,669
we'll be working on on something else we

73
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:38,340
want to put a together a retrospect on

74
00:04:45,770 --> 00:04:42,090
her on her career in life because she

75
00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:45,780
was into a lot of esoteric subjects

76
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:48,240
probably Tim as you as you know in Doha

77
00:04:57,950 --> 00:04:54,750
yeah yeah secret societies and you know

78
00:05:01,190 --> 00:04:57,960
she was a actually did some

79
00:05:03,710 --> 00:05:01,200
correspondence with Allen Greenfield she

80
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:03,720
was producing a Ground Zero the night

81
00:05:08,450 --> 00:05:05,250
that he brought down the

82
00:05:11,990 --> 00:05:08,460
Archangel Metatron remember in the the

83
00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:12,000
the roof of the the studio flew flew off

84
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:12,830
there

85
00:05:19,340 --> 00:05:15,450
apparently the spirit that came through

86
00:05:21,410 --> 00:05:19,350
and then the the third passing is an

87
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:21,420
actor I don't think either one of us

88
00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:24,570
knew him but Roger Howard was one of the

89
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:27,720
stars of Blade Runner which is based of

90
00:05:34,190 --> 00:05:31,170
course upon Philip okay one of philip k

91
00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:34,200
dick books and there is a synchronicity

92
00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:37,830
involving his death the movie Blade

93
00:05:41,390 --> 00:05:40,110
Runner took place in the future of

94
00:05:43,940 --> 00:05:41,400
course I don't know how many years ago

95
00:05:48,770 --> 00:05:43,950
was actually released but it took place

96
00:05:53,210 --> 00:05:48,780
in the year 2019 and he passed away in

97
00:05:56,570 --> 00:05:53,220
then 2019 just a few days ago and and he

98
00:05:59,480 --> 00:05:56,580
very well-established actor a very a

99
00:06:03,200 --> 00:05:59,490
polished and professional and got great

100
00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:03,210
reviews for his role in the Blade Runner

101
00:06:10,250 --> 00:06:06,660
so this is you know not a like you say

102
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:10,260
not a great week but the the show must

103
00:06:15,310 --> 00:06:12,810
go on as they said in the used to say

104
00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:15,320
the circus I think it was right I mean

105
00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:18,240
okay and and I don't think we have a

106
00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:21,990
circus going here but maybe maybe we do

107
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:24,000
from time to time anyway

108
00:06:28,909 --> 00:06:25,650
introduce our guest for this evening

109
00:06:31,550 --> 00:06:28,919
because we do have a very interesting

110
00:06:34,420 --> 00:06:31,560
show coming up oh it's my pleasure well

111
00:06:38,270 --> 00:06:34,430
I'm really happy that tonight we have

112
00:06:40,130 --> 00:06:38,280
John ketubah with us now John is the

113
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:40,140
award-winning author of 12 books and

114
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:41,970
numerous articles short stories and

115
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:42,530
poems

116
00:06:47,659 --> 00:06:45,330
john holds advanced degrees in creative

117
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:47,669
writing and teaches that subject through

118
00:06:52,820 --> 00:06:50,490
Ohio University and the Gotham Writers

119
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:52,830
Workshop he's a member of the historical

120
00:06:56,510 --> 00:06:55,370
novel society and the Horror Writers

121
00:06:59,120 --> 00:06:56,520
Association

122
00:07:02,120 --> 00:06:59,130
now John frequently speaks on paranormal

123
00:07:04,510 --> 00:07:02,130
and metaphysical topics and is a regular

124
00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:04,520
speaker at universities libraries

125
00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:07,919
paranormal conferences and on podcast

126
00:07:15,020 --> 00:07:12,510
radio and television on top of

127
00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:15,030
everything else John is the author of

128
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:17,190
such books as

129
00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:20,730
ghost-hunting Ohio on the road again the

130
00:07:24,670 --> 00:07:22,950
novel dark entry and the book we're

131
00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:24,680
gonna be talking about tonight

132
00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:28,260
shapeshifters a history so John thanks

133
00:07:32,390 --> 00:07:29,940
very much for being with us tonight on

134
00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:32,400
exploring the bizarre oh thank you it's

135
00:07:39,070 --> 00:07:35,280
great to be here I'm just getting back

136
00:07:42,860 --> 00:07:39,080
into my human áformer here John you know

137
00:07:45,820 --> 00:07:42,870
wipe the saliva off of you Tim Wow okay

138
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:45,830
and I'll get my teeth out of your arm

139
00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:48,690
not so not so fast though just so you

140
00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:51,510
feel the burn right

141
00:07:57,980 --> 00:07:54,720
hey okay John so now when I think of a

142
00:08:01,360 --> 00:07:57,990
shape shifters I think of skinwalker

143
00:08:03,590 --> 00:08:01,370
ranch I I would believe if any any

144
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:03,600
particular incident has brought the

145
00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:06,330
topic to the public's attention it would

146
00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:10,110
be the incidents that have taken place

147
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:13,680
there over the last several decades or

148
00:08:18,410 --> 00:08:16,410
so but there may be some listeners

149
00:08:21,850 --> 00:08:18,420
through our show who are not to help on

150
00:08:24,620 --> 00:08:21,860
what a skinwalker might be so

151
00:08:26,930 --> 00:08:24,630
shapeshifter skinwalker so why don't you

152
00:08:32,170 --> 00:08:26,940
give us a little bit of a background on

153
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:32,180
what of what they might be and how the

154
00:08:35,779 --> 00:08:35,370
legend really got started sure no

155
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:35,789
problem

156
00:08:41,870 --> 00:08:38,250
the simplest definition of a

157
00:08:44,060 --> 00:08:41,880
shapeshifter is simply a person that is

158
00:08:46,270 --> 00:08:44,070
capable of transforming actually

159
00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:46,280
physically transforming themselves into

160
00:08:53,540 --> 00:08:50,160
any kind of animal possibly another

161
00:08:56,450 --> 00:08:53,550
person or even sometimes an inanimate

162
00:08:59,120 --> 00:08:56,460
object and in the book shape-shift

163
00:09:01,610 --> 00:08:59,130
there's a history what I wanted to do

164
00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:01,620
was I wanted to trace the idea of the

165
00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:04,380
shapeshifter character through different

166
00:09:09,170 --> 00:09:07,020
cultures I wanted to see how universal

167
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:09,180
it was I also wanted to see how long

168
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:10,290
it's been with us

169
00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:13,170
so in researching this book I found that

170
00:09:18,350 --> 00:09:15,630
sure enough cultures all around the

171
00:09:21,470 --> 00:09:18,360
world in on every continent have some

172
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:21,480
type of shape-shifter character in a

173
00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:22,170
mythology

174
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:24,840
in there perhaps religious beliefs or

175
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:28,250
actually even in life having actual

176
00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:30,730
encounters with shapeshifters

177
00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:33,070
and I found that it goes back as far

178
00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:36,340
back as like the Neolithic era there are

179
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:38,470
cave wall there are wall paintings in

180
00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:41,530
some caves in France that show what are

181
00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:44,350
typically people transforming into

182
00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:46,510
animals and these were shamans who were

183
00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:48,700
doing sort of hunter magic they called

184
00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:50,710
it you know going into rituals and going

185
00:09:55,170 --> 00:09:53,260
into trances with hunters to allow them

186
00:09:57,270 --> 00:09:55,180
to go out and be successful in the hunt

187
00:09:59,760 --> 00:09:57,280
but to do that they had to feel they

188
00:10:02,040 --> 00:09:59,770
were one with the animal that they in

189
00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:02,050
fact were the animal so it's very

190
00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:04,150
interesting I mean there were a million

191
00:10:08,730 --> 00:10:05,830
rabbit holes that I went down on this

192
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:08,740
book as I was as I was exploring it it

193
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:10,450
was hard to kind of regulate into

194
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:11,890
something that made sense there was so

195
00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:14,710
much material well what why did you

196
00:10:19,230 --> 00:10:17,800
decide to do a a book on this particular

197
00:10:22,740 --> 00:10:19,240
topic

198
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:22,750
well it probably stems out of the work

199
00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:24,250
that I had been doing in the past might

200
00:10:27,870 --> 00:10:25,960
several of my books in the past as you

201
00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:27,880
mentioned have been about ghosts

202
00:10:32,730 --> 00:10:31,240
particularly ghosts and hauntings around

203
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:32,740
the United States and some international

204
00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:34,720
and I've been on a lot of radio programs

205
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:36,940
like yours and different kinds of shows

206
00:10:42,210 --> 00:10:39,210
and when we start talking about

207
00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:42,220
paranormal experiences we start off with

208
00:10:47,010 --> 00:10:44,500
ghosts but then it always drifts and

209
00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:47,020
people always talk about hearing about

210
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:49,840
stories about werewolves or vampires or

211
00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:52,270
as you mentioned skinwalkers or any of

212
00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:53,950
these you know wide variety of

213
00:10:58,380 --> 00:10:56,260
shapeshifters and so I started thinking

214
00:11:00,030 --> 00:10:58,390
what it is this is really a big thing

215
00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:00,040
there's a lot of people talking about

216
00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:03,430
this why so we're doing the research I

217
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:05,140
uncovered just you know how popular it

218
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:06,610
was and I thought this is great this

219
00:11:11,250 --> 00:11:09,490
this is a topic for a book so it

220
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:11,260
develops from you know previous work

221
00:11:17,550 --> 00:11:14,650
really now you say that this goes back

222
00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:17,560
in and in history now I know that the

223
00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:19,540
American Native Americans have many

224
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:23,320
legends about the shapeshifters and all

225
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:26,890
anything in the Bible that refers to the

226
00:11:33,270 --> 00:11:30,480
topic yeah actually one of the earliest

227
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:33,280
incidents or sort of reporting's

228
00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:35,890
of a werewolf goes back to the Old

229
00:11:40,530 --> 00:11:38,710
Testament to the Book of Daniel and I'm

230
00:11:43,290 --> 00:11:40,540
just going to paraphrase I don't know

231
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:43,300
the exact but the idea was that there

232
00:11:48,930 --> 00:11:44,380
was a king

233
00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:48,940
donna's er who apparently was testing

234
00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:51,100
testing god and i forgot exactly what

235
00:11:56,220 --> 00:11:53,710
that was about but anyway God was

236
00:11:58,830 --> 00:11:56,230
displeased with him and so turned him

237
00:12:01,230 --> 00:11:58,840
into a beast and the way it's described

238
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:01,240
in the Bible is that it went about on

239
00:12:06,810 --> 00:12:03,880
all fours that ran around in the grass

240
00:12:08,490 --> 00:12:06,820
it was eating grass if had hair it

241
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:08,500
sprouted hair everywhere

242
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:11,680
it had talons or claws depending on you

243
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:13,810
know the Bible's interpreted so people

244
00:12:19,950 --> 00:12:16,620
say this is the first you know werewolf

245
00:12:22,530 --> 00:12:19,960
that we've seen sort of recorded and the

246
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:22,540
Bible mentions other ones too I mean

247
00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:26,530
there's even some some theologians now

248
00:12:31,530 --> 00:12:28,420
that have a theory in the New Testament

249
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:31,540
that Jesus himself could have been a

250
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:32,290
shapeshifter

251
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:35,050
and this I found very interesting I had

252
00:12:39,450 --> 00:12:37,360
never heard this before but there is a

253
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:39,460
particular theologian at a university in

254
00:12:46,350 --> 00:12:43,210
the Netherlands who found a Coptic text

255
00:12:49,380 --> 00:12:46,360
on housands of years old in the Morgan

256
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:49,390
Library in New York and say has started

257
00:12:56,190 --> 00:12:51,610
interpreting it he interpreted it to

258
00:12:58,530 --> 00:12:56,200
mean describing Jesus as as ruddy you

259
00:13:02,760 --> 00:12:58,540
know sort of a reddish color as white as

260
00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:02,770
old as young all these different

261
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:05,800
descriptions of him and the bottom line

262
00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:08,890
is something like paraphrased it again

263
00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:11,980
is that he appeared to many in different

264
00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:15,340
ways so you wonder well you know what is

265
00:13:18,270 --> 00:13:15,820
that about

266
00:13:20,570 --> 00:13:18,280
and there's some other there's even some

267
00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:20,580
more incidents in New Testament again

268
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,840
referring to Jesus as a possible

269
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:24,880
shapeshifter well that's that's

270
00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:27,310
fascinating that how about down through

271
00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:30,760
a history have there been any famous

272
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:33,940
individuals who have come across

273
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:36,480
shapeshifters or talked about them I

274
00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:39,130
don't know about famous individuals

275
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:42,070
necessarily but there are certainly all

276
00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:44,890
kinds of recordings I've been to present

277
00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:47,160
time about incidents with shapeshifters

278
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:49,390
especially with werewolves it seems to

279
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:52,770
be a pretty common yeah a common type

280
00:13:58,510 --> 00:13:55,600
not sure about any famous personality so

281
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,520
do you have somebody in mind well no I

282
00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:00,320
well I was thinking of the the bell

283
00:14:05,140 --> 00:14:03,350
which but I don't know whether there was

284
00:14:06,490 --> 00:14:05,150
a well wasn't there Tim was it there's

285
00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:06,500
something they did with a dog or an

286
00:14:10,810 --> 00:14:07,940
animal or something that chased the

287
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:10,820
president or well not the president but

288
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:13,070
the allegedly the children who lived in

289
00:14:16,410 --> 00:14:14,000
the household

290
00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:16,420
said that they would occasionally see

291
00:14:22,180 --> 00:14:20,300
odd odd looking animals that later the

292
00:14:24,130 --> 00:14:22,190
voice that of the Bell which would claim

293
00:14:26,590 --> 00:14:24,140
that that was her that you know she

294
00:14:30,090 --> 00:14:26,600
could appear in all kinds of different

295
00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:30,100
shapes but what about Saint Germain

296
00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:33,740
then did it didn't st. Germain appear at

297
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:36,110
various times throughout history as a

298
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:38,650
different person

299
00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:43,760
yeah well he has appeared throughout

300
00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:47,300
history maybe he's just changed this cap

301
00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:49,100
and gown or something I'm not sure well

302
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,590
they're either no shapeshifters

303
00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:53,600
shape-shifting or not but that's

304
00:15:00,640 --> 00:14:56,870
certainly a strong possibility now have

305
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:00,650
you will talk to any Native Americans

306
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:04,130
about this topic yeah and you know it's

307
00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:07,130
a little bit difficult to to get a lot

308
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:09,860
of information from them especially if

309
00:15:12,850 --> 00:15:11,330
you're talking lie to you the Danai

310
00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:12,860
people that the Navajo people the

311
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:15,500
Southwest because they have this strong

312
00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:19,010
strong belief in skinwalkers which are

313
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:22,520
not exactly nice people you know they're

314
00:15:25,630 --> 00:15:23,510
they're brutal

315
00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:25,640
they're they're witches and they

316
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:28,100
transform according to Navajo belief

317
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:32,570
into basically killing machines I mean

318
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:36,050
they're their assualt for vengeance and

319
00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:37,670
and that kind of thing so if you're

320
00:15:41,230 --> 00:15:39,350
looking for a skinwalker you're looking

321
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:41,240
for him to do some harm to somebody and

322
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:45,170
he will but so that people are reluctant

323
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:47,210
to talk about that because the belief is

324
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:48,890
very you know it's very deeply embedded

325
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:52,250
in their in their lore and they feel

326
00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:55,370
that even by sort of talking about it

327
00:16:00,280 --> 00:15:57,910
mentioning it that they could bring that

328
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:00,290
shapeshifter into their own life and

329
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:01,310
that would not be a pleasant experience

330
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:03,950
for them so I got a lot of recorded

331
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:05,690
accounts but it was difficult to get a

332
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:08,050
lot of people to actually speak about it

333
00:16:14,829 --> 00:16:12,290
now how about the activity at the

334
00:16:17,290 --> 00:16:14,839
skinwalker ranch have you talked to

335
00:16:20,620 --> 00:16:17,300
anybody who's been involved in the

336
00:16:22,540 --> 00:16:20,630
investigating that I haven't spoken to

337
00:16:24,610 --> 00:16:22,550
the investigators there but you're right

338
00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:24,620
there's a lot of incidents about that

339
00:16:28,540 --> 00:16:27,230
and I I sort of didn't even cover that

340
00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:28,550
so much because I already thought that

341
00:16:32,319 --> 00:16:30,980
had been pretty much my job there you

342
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:32,329
know and I was trying to be more broad

343
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:34,250
spectrum and looking cultures to work

344
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:36,649
where we're looking at something a

345
00:16:41,230 --> 00:16:37,880
little bit different than the typical

346
00:16:45,370 --> 00:16:41,240
werewolf thing and vampire thing well

347
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:45,380
now we're being historical for a minute

348
00:16:50,139 --> 00:16:47,930
here what are some of the historical

349
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:50,149
incidences in the u.s. I mean can we

350
00:16:55,809 --> 00:16:53,050
point to any particular incidences of

351
00:16:59,530 --> 00:16:55,819
shapeshifters outside of skinwalker

352
00:17:04,240 --> 00:16:59,540
ranch yeah I mean back in New England in

353
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:04,250
the late 18th century and into the 19th

354
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:08,660
century even there was a whole panic I

355
00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:11,150
guess you can call it a vampire panic

356
00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:13,790
and what was happening was people in New

357
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:16,130
England were were dying and they were

358
00:17:21,699 --> 00:17:18,799
dying in a way they were sort of wasting

359
00:17:24,189 --> 00:17:21,709
away they're becoming emaciated pale

360
00:17:26,199 --> 00:17:24,199
drawn and there and their death was

361
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:26,209
prolonged it took months sometimes years

362
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:28,549
and people were thinking well this could

363
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:30,710
only be the work of vampires because

364
00:17:35,409 --> 00:17:33,110
when a vampire preys on you it's long

365
00:17:37,419 --> 00:17:35,419
term then he gradually gradually

366
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:37,429
gradually takes your energy your

367
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:39,710
lifeblood and eventually you die or

368
00:17:43,539 --> 00:17:41,690
become a vampire like him so they are

369
00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:43,549
immediately all throughout New England

370
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:45,230
while this was going on people started

371
00:17:51,159 --> 00:17:47,990
going into cemeteries and they started

372
00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:51,169
opening graves and and desecrating

373
00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:53,960
corpses that they believed were vampire

374
00:18:00,340 --> 00:17:57,169
corpses and there's a famous case out of

375
00:18:01,810 --> 00:18:00,350
Exeter Rhode Island of Mercy Brown and I

376
00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:01,820
think probably a lot of your listeners

377
00:18:05,770 --> 00:18:04,070
will probably know that story but the

378
00:18:08,830 --> 00:18:05,780
short of it is that members of her

379
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:08,840
family this was around 1890 1892

380
00:18:12,669 --> 00:18:11,240
somewhere around there members of her

381
00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:12,679
family her mother her sisters and

382
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:15,590
mothers had died from this wasting away

383
00:18:22,210 --> 00:18:20,330
disease and she was 19 she survived by

384
00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:22,220
about 10 years her mother and her

385
00:18:28,530 --> 00:18:25,240
sisters death and then she

386
00:18:32,940 --> 00:18:28,540
and she was like 19 when she died her

387
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:32,950
brother became sick as well and so when

388
00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:34,960
the people in the town started thinking

389
00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:36,520
about this family and how they all died

390
00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:38,920
they thought wow this wasting away she's

391
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:40,780
only a 19 year old girl this must be the

392
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:44,080
work of a vampire so to save the brother

393
00:18:50,430 --> 00:18:47,260
they opened Mercy's grave they cut out

394
00:18:53,580 --> 00:18:50,440
her heart from her corpse and they

395
00:18:57,090 --> 00:18:53,590
burned it and they took the ashes they

396
00:18:59,670 --> 00:18:57,100
mixed it into a sort of broth and they

397
00:19:01,020 --> 00:18:59,680
fed that to the sick brother thinking

398
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:01,030
this is gonna cure you it was like the

399
00:19:07,370 --> 00:19:03,250
hair of the dog in a sense yeah yeah

400
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:07,380
literally literally in this case yeah

401
00:19:12,450 --> 00:19:10,090
here the back right would any of this

402
00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:12,460
vampire potion and will save your life

403
00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:14,920
well you know it didn't save his life he

404
00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:17,020
did die but it turns out that this

405
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:19,900
wasting away disease you know we know it

406
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:21,820
there was even a term for it then it was

407
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:24,000
consumption we know it as tuberculosis

408
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,770
but there was this panic people were

409
00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:28,480
dying it tuberculosis and all the time

410
00:19:33,870 --> 00:19:29,640
they're thinking there's this vampire

411
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:33,880
outbreak so it was you know it was

412
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:35,410
pretty major was reporting all the

413
00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:37,210
newspapers in fact when Mercy Browns

414
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:40,150
grave was opened there was a reporter

415
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,950
from the Providence Journal the major

416
00:19:46,290 --> 00:19:44,080
newspaper in Rhode Island who was right

417
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:46,300
there at the time and recorded

418
00:19:50,430 --> 00:19:48,190
everything how they cut out the heart in

419
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:50,440
all this and you know it's in the you

420
00:19:53,790 --> 00:19:51,970
can get a copy of the old Providence

421
00:19:56,970 --> 00:19:53,800
Journal from 1892 and we to first-hand

422
00:20:00,810 --> 00:19:56,980
account of this so that kind of Terror

423
00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:00,820
was you know was very common with both

424
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:04,600
werewolves and vampires in Europe and it

425
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:05,950
seems more in Europe than anywhere else

426
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:08,290
but we had our own little share here

427
00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:11,890
well now okay we we talked about turning

428
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:14,620
into a bad and I guess you turned it you

429
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,890
could turn into a wolf or a coyote or

430
00:20:22,290 --> 00:20:18,640
something like that

431
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:22,300
does anybody turn into anything else I

432
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:23,770
mean what are some of the other things

433
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:27,940
that you might want to turn into well I

434
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:30,460
know what you might want to turn in too

435
00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:33,910
but yeah almost any kind of animal I

436
00:20:39,010 --> 00:20:36,760
mean there are we're we're bears you

437
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:39,020
know werewolves of course the

438
00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:41,450
we're otters I mean if you name an

439
00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:45,260
animal there's a where animal for but I

440
00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:46,940
without than some of the cultures like

441
00:20:52,330 --> 00:20:49,340
in Africa for instance a lot of the

442
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:52,340
shamans there would transform and they

443
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:53,870
would transform obviously into what

444
00:20:58,540 --> 00:20:56,330
animals or in their environment so they

445
00:21:01,810 --> 00:20:58,550
are transforming into leopards to lions

446
00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:01,820
to different kinds of gazelles I mean

447
00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:04,070
you name it there can be a we're turtle

448
00:21:08,140 --> 00:21:06,740
probably I mean you want I was I was

449
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:08,150
gonna I was gonna ask you that but I

450
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:11,600
didn't want to sound like an idiot no I

451
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:14,090
mean you know anything is game and we

452
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:15,470
mentioned a bit earlier the belt which

453
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:18,770
was brought up and hitches we're of

454
00:21:21,940 --> 00:21:20,330
course always associated with

455
00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:21,950
shape-shifting that was part of their

456
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:24,470
their thing right and they could change

457
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:27,170
into anything and again even an

458
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:29,330
inanimate object didn't even have to be

459
00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:33,050
you know a breathing well first we we

460
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:35,420
have one of our authors Maria D'Andrea

461
00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:38,480
has just written a book I came around a

462
00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:41,390
couple of weeks ago in fact on familiars

463
00:21:45,850 --> 00:21:43,670
and she had she had like you say you

464
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:45,860
Nana totems I believe she is she called

465
00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:48,410
them and and it doesn't just have to be

466
00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:51,470
a dog or a cat or a bird it could be

467
00:21:59,140 --> 00:21:55,430
something that you're closely akin to so

468
00:22:01,150 --> 00:21:59,150
yes indeed and now if I want a

469
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,160
shape-shifter tonight you know for some

470
00:22:09,580 --> 00:22:04,880
reason is there a potion that I can take

471
00:22:13,630 --> 00:22:09,590
or what do I do in order to it to change

472
00:22:18,460 --> 00:22:13,640
my shape well the easiest thing to put a

473
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:18,470
mask in a costume on and just outside of

474
00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:21,410
cross-dressing yeah right but you know

475
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:24,680
but in and I about that yet at the same

476
00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:27,050
time if you think about what the

477
00:22:32,530 --> 00:22:28,900
shapeshifter character is all about

478
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:32,540
there is this desire that we all have I

479
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:35,570
think to sometimes look outside our

480
00:22:39,490 --> 00:22:37,790
nature the conside what we are and wish

481
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:39,500
to be something else

482
00:22:43,030 --> 00:22:41,450
you know we're dual nature people we

483
00:22:45,370 --> 00:22:43,040
have good we have evil we have light

484
00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:45,380
sides we have dark sides yeah and if you

485
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:47,870
think of dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde a

486
00:22:53,139 --> 00:22:51,380
famous example this great noble doctor

487
00:22:54,999 --> 00:22:53,149
who said yeah I want to take a walk

488
00:22:56,529 --> 00:22:55,009
on the wild side and he developed a

489
00:22:58,570 --> 00:22:56,539
potion I don't know if it's still round

490
00:23:00,849 --> 00:22:58,580
maybe we can find it for you but he

491
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:00,859
developed this option right and he

492
00:23:06,399 --> 00:23:04,580
becomes mr. Hyde completely amazing some

493
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:06,409
of the women that I have gone out with

494
00:23:10,299 --> 00:23:08,330
have called me a dog but yeah I don't

495
00:23:20,019 --> 00:23:10,309
know if that's referred to my

496
00:23:21,969 --> 00:23:20,029
shape-shifting abilities well you used

497
00:23:24,009 --> 00:23:21,979
to be Tim that you could get the like

498
00:23:25,869 --> 00:23:24,019
that pelt of a wolf and make a belt out

499
00:23:27,789 --> 00:23:25,879
of it and yeah

500
00:23:28,989 --> 00:23:27,799
smear yourself I think with nightshade

501
00:23:33,879 --> 00:23:28,999
or something like that and I would

502
00:23:35,859 --> 00:23:33,889
suppose turning into a wolf right yes I

503
00:23:37,779 --> 00:23:35,869
try that over the over the weekends I

504
00:23:39,820 --> 00:23:37,789
suppose yeah yeah there's a lot of

505
00:23:42,190 --> 00:23:39,830
examples in my book of that going back

506
00:23:43,959 --> 00:23:42,200
to like the Icelandic days and the old

507
00:23:46,329 --> 00:23:43,969
warriors who would do that you know

508
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,339
where pelts bear hides wolf hides and

509
00:23:49,989 --> 00:23:48,799
also take some hallucinogenics as well

510
00:23:54,899 --> 00:23:49,999
from the nature from the environment

511
00:23:58,479 --> 00:23:54,909
which helped to I always think so yeah

512
00:24:01,389 --> 00:23:58,489
all right well we are coming up to the

513
00:24:03,459 --> 00:24:01,399
our bottom of the hour break Tim so why

514
00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:03,469
don't we go ahead and take that and when

515
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:05,419
we come back we will continue our

516
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:07,369
conversation too with John about

517
00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:21,850
now back to exploring the bazaar with

518
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:24,440
two of the most electrifying researchers

519
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:27,440
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

520
00:24:35,169 --> 00:24:33,260
Rebecca Lee and tastes you know Tim I

521
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:35,179
don't think I like this shape-shifting

522
00:24:41,770 --> 00:24:38,210
stuff by now I've got fleas and I got

523
00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:41,780
the mange I have to put a flea collar on

524
00:24:46,779 --> 00:24:43,640
you yeah there's got to be something

525
00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:46,789
that you know to be said for keeping you

526
00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:49,070
know keeping more human I suppose in the

527
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:51,260
future but I okay I gave it a shot

528
00:24:56,860 --> 00:24:54,740
anyway it's him you you carry on here

529
00:24:59,500 --> 00:24:56,870
with well I wanted you I wanted parts

530
00:25:01,600 --> 00:24:59,510
the show yes I wanted to bring up to him

531
00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:01,610
that you know I live here in southern

532
00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:04,190
Indiana and this area you know was

533
00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:05,929
originally populated by the French as

534
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:09,320
far back as the the 1500 so there's this

535
00:25:16,810 --> 00:25:12,110
rich tradition of like the the

536
00:25:21,460 --> 00:25:16,820
loup-garou that still kind of pervades

537
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:21,470
some of the you know like descendants of

538
00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:23,929
these French settlers and you were

539
00:25:28,930 --> 00:25:25,460
asking about different animals there's

540
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:28,940
actually a story of a gentleman who he

541
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:30,799
missed mass for like you know five days

542
00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:33,770
in a row and somehow I'm not quite sure

543
00:25:38,649 --> 00:25:35,630
how this happened he was turned into a

544
00:25:42,220 --> 00:25:38,659
where cow so there's there's an

545
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:42,230
interesting animal for you yes that it's

546
00:25:52,330 --> 00:25:47,600
not just wolves or bats the person can

547
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:52,340
be turned into a cow as well so John I

548
00:26:02,020 --> 00:25:58,210
wanted to ask you now with the whole

549
00:26:05,169 --> 00:26:02,030
shape-shifting idea I mean it's it's

550
00:26:11,289 --> 00:26:05,179
been with us since since prehistory and

551
00:26:14,919 --> 00:26:11,299
probably further back than that would

552
00:26:19,389 --> 00:26:14,929
you think that the the idea of the

553
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,399
shapeshifter is almost a an archetype I

554
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:21,679
mean it's it's so pervasive I mean even

555
00:26:24,730 --> 00:26:22,850
today

556
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:24,740
I mean is is that is this something

557
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:28,490
that's really just ingrained you know

558
00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:30,830
upon that but maybe even that reptilian

559
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:35,900
part of our mind I think there is a lot

560
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:39,410
out of what I say sort of a lot of

561
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:41,510
psychology in vial of them here that

562
00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:43,970
really sets this up is going back a long

563
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:46,580
long way and there are archetypes that

564
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:48,830
are here as well you know Jung wrote

565
00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:51,050
about the animus and the anima you know

566
00:26:55,420 --> 00:26:53,240
the female the female side and every

567
00:26:58,260 --> 00:26:55,430
male the male side and every female and

568
00:27:00,690 --> 00:26:58,270
and that right there is shape-shifting

569
00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:00,700
but I think there's something even more

570
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:03,320
elemental in that and I touched on that

571
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:04,690
a little bit before when I talked about

572
00:27:09,460 --> 00:27:07,610
Jekyll and Hyde and that's that we have

573
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:09,470
a dual nature you know we know that

574
00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:11,420
we're capable of good we're capable of

575
00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:16,520
bad and and the thing is the only thing

576
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:18,500
that keeps us sort of on the straight

577
00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:21,490
and narrow and keeps us in check are or

578
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,830
bonds that we construct ourselves so

579
00:27:30,130 --> 00:27:26,960
they're the religious bonds they're

580
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:30,140
legal bonds their moral bonds but this

581
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:32,690
is what's holds us in check but if you

582
00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:35,540
could shake off all that you know if you

583
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:37,400
could just get rid of everything like

584
00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:41,210
that so you have no restrictions on you

585
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:43,550
or your behavior or anything that you

586
00:27:47,890 --> 00:27:45,650
want to do you know would you take that

587
00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:47,900
freedom and how would you use it and I

588
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:51,380
think the shapeshifter character gives

589
00:27:57,250 --> 00:27:54,710
us that sort of chance to maybe

590
00:27:59,650 --> 00:27:57,260
virtually think about what it would be

591
00:28:00,970 --> 00:27:59,660
like to you know to sort of

592
00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:00,980
wish-fulfilling like if we could get rid

593
00:28:04,690 --> 00:28:02,750
of that how awful how awesome would that

594
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:04,700
be so I think there's something in our

595
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:07,070
nature that says you know it'd be great

596
00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:08,900
if we can do this but we control it

597
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:12,140
through societal means so you have that

598
00:28:17,050 --> 00:28:14,570
going on and then there's just this

599
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:17,060
whole psychological thing about I mean

600
00:28:21,010 --> 00:28:18,710
there's some psycho psychological

601
00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:21,020
delusions too about what shapeshifters

602
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:24,350
are you know I mentioned well I know if

603
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:25,760
he actually talked about or not but like

604
00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:28,370
Anthropy for instance you know he's an

605
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:31,430
actual psychological delusion where

606
00:28:36,010 --> 00:28:33,290
somebody believes that they've

607
00:28:36,460 --> 00:28:36,020
transformed into a wolf and in my book I

608
00:28:38,649 --> 00:28:36,470
have some

609
00:28:40,210 --> 00:28:38,659
case histories of this and you hear

610
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:40,220
about for instance there was a guy who

611
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:42,289
was a twenty year old guy and this was

612
00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:46,480
reported in 2000 in a journal 2014 a

613
00:28:50,830 --> 00:28:48,830
Psychiatric Journal by psychiatrist this

614
00:28:53,470 --> 00:28:50,840
was his patient they talked about how

615
00:28:56,890 --> 00:28:53,480
this guy would go around on all fours

616
00:28:59,470 --> 00:28:56,900
he'd howl he barked you know he'd snap

617
00:29:03,730 --> 00:28:59,480
at you and yet he wasn't even aware of

618
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,740
these activities after some treatment

619
00:29:08,770 --> 00:29:05,840
he's began to understand his behavior a

620
00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:08,780
little bit and doctors started talking

621
00:29:11,950 --> 00:29:10,100
to him and said well what's this about

622
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:11,960
and he said well I'm a werewolf

623
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:14,510
you know I transform into a werewolf at

624
00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:16,010
times and I can't control it

625
00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:18,350
well nobody saw any transformation but

626
00:29:23,049 --> 00:29:20,990
in his mind it was there and he acted

627
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:23,059
out as a werewolf so whether he had the

628
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:25,400
hair or not you know didn't really

629
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:29,350
matter so so he was he was an internal

630
00:29:34,899 --> 00:29:32,450
shapeshifter right right and I make that

631
00:29:37,299 --> 00:29:34,909
distinction in my book between external

632
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:37,309
and internal shapeshifters the external

633
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,450
ones being the ones that you can

634
00:29:43,570 --> 00:29:40,880
actually see in that transformation the

635
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,580
famous Lon Chaney jr. and American

636
00:29:47,649 --> 00:29:45,919
Werewolf in London you know those kinds

637
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:47,659
of things where you see the hair grow

638
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:50,570
the the physical transformation and your

639
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:52,610
bones cracking and suddenly you have

640
00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:54,110
something different than a human being

641
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:55,940
but then there's the internal

642
00:30:01,990 --> 00:29:59,120
shapeshifter those are the ones that you

643
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:02,000
know nothing happens on the outside but

644
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:04,010
inside they have changed if we're all

645
00:30:08,409 --> 00:30:06,530
practical purposes they're they're not

646
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,419
human anymore they have become something

647
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:11,120
else I was on a radio program not too

648
00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:12,890
long ago and somebody said well what

649
00:30:16,090 --> 00:30:15,320
about somebody like Ted Bundy is that a

650
00:30:19,570 --> 00:30:16,100
shapeshifter

651
00:30:21,610 --> 00:30:19,580
I thought wow I hadn't really thought

652
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:21,620
about that but you remember every

653
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:23,929
members Ted Bundy as is you know serial

654
00:30:28,990 --> 00:30:26,450
killer but on the outside he was as

655
00:30:31,270 --> 00:30:29,000
clean-cut sort of preppy looking guy

656
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,280
very friendly very outgoing everybody

657
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:33,679
loved Ted they turned out to be this

658
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:37,039
horrible horrible serial killer so what

659
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:39,710
was going on inside him you know had he

660
00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:43,010
shifted in a way to something you know

661
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:45,020
some kind of a psychopath mad that's

662
00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:47,630
that's really sort of extending the

663
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:49,640
definition of shapeshifter but that's

664
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:49,890
what

665
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:51,929
look does it looks at a whole range of

666
00:30:59,660 --> 00:30:55,890
what a shapeshifter could be well and it

667
00:31:02,090 --> 00:30:59,670
this also makes me think of of pop

668
00:31:05,780 --> 00:31:02,100
culture and how pop culture has has

669
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:05,790
really embraced the the whole idea of

670
00:31:10,010 --> 00:31:07,679
the shapeshifter I mean there's a lot of

671
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:10,020
examples that I think that people

672
00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:11,610
wouldn't even think about as being

673
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,500
shapeshifters but there they are I mean

674
00:31:18,410 --> 00:31:16,559
you look at some of these some cartoons

675
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:18,420
that are out now or well oh you know

676
00:31:22,810 --> 00:31:20,340
movies of it you have was as if the

677
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:22,820
transformer it's not necessarily human

678
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:24,990
shapeshifters but you know you have

679
00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:27,809
robots that can change into you know

680
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:30,660
cars and back to robots again right

681
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:32,760
exactly in those transformer movies and

682
00:31:36,620 --> 00:31:34,290
they're very popular the toys have been

683
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:36,630
popular for years and I do write about

684
00:31:41,419 --> 00:31:38,370
the Transformers in my book and I do

685
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:41,429
write about popular culture and how to

686
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:43,410
your point you know the shapeshifters

687
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:45,929
have become almost invisible in a sense

688
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:47,100
we don't really think of them as

689
00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:48,750
shapeshifters but then when somebody

690
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:51,720
points now you go oh yeah you know you

691
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:54,570
mentioned cartoons I've got I've got 11

692
00:32:02,210 --> 00:31:58,080
grandchildren and that's why first yeah

693
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:02,220
okay and to a little they're both girls

694
00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:04,410
and they're and they're young and one of

695
00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:07,020
them is watching a cartoon called van

696
00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:09,630
Purina right and it's a cute little

697
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:11,400
cartoon it's about this little vampire

698
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:13,230
girl and her vampire family and they

699
00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:16,290
move - they move from Transylvania to

700
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:20,040
Pennsylvania you know okay but vamper

701
00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:24,630
makes sense yes they got confused while

702
00:32:29,659 --> 00:32:27,150
looking at a map no doubt yeah you know

703
00:32:32,299 --> 00:32:29,669
yeah it they got the Ivania part there

704
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,309
so they're right I don't but vamp arena

705
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:34,320
is this little vampire girl and she

706
00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:36,600
transforms to things all the time and my

707
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:38,100
little granddaughter is watching and she

708
00:32:41,150 --> 00:32:39,570
doesn't think Oh dad you know grandpa

709
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:41,160
that's a shape-shifter she says look

710
00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:43,200
what vamp arena's doing and the other

711
00:32:49,159 --> 00:32:45,480
one is watching a program of cartoon

712
00:32:54,049 --> 00:32:49,169
again called more full spelled mor phl

713
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:54,059
then more full is a red blob with the--

714
00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:56,130
and apparently it's like a they call it

715
00:33:02,400 --> 00:32:59,370
a magic pet well more full you can get

716
00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:02,410
versus going for morphology and you

717
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:04,740
morphogenesis you can see the name there

718
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:07,300
changes anytime too you know whatever he

719
00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:09,100
wants to be can be a dinosaur he can be

720
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:11,380
a fire hydrant the kids love it but

721
00:33:17,910 --> 00:33:13,690
they're watching shapeshifters so it's

722
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:17,920
there it's everywhere not not realizing

723
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:21,130
how far back this this meme actually

724
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:24,570
goes that's so that's so interesting

725
00:33:30,930 --> 00:33:28,690
well now I know that you have been

726
00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:30,940
involved over the years with with ghost

727
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:33,550
hunting as well you know your first book

728
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:37,210
was the ghost hunting Ohio

729
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:42,070
what about had have you looked into some

730
00:33:51,540 --> 00:33:47,200
of these stories where haunted locations

731
00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:51,550
it appears that whatever is haunting you

732
00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:53,260
know whether be it or a Ghost spirit of

733
00:33:59,580 --> 00:33:56,070
the dad you know whatever have sometimes

734
00:34:01,680 --> 00:33:59,590
appears in different different forms and

735
00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:01,690
and in fact you know you have mediums

736
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,710
who go and check out these places and

737
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:06,640
they allege that they've communicated

738
00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:09,310
with this with the spirit the spirit

739
00:34:16,409 --> 00:34:11,710
will say that it has the ability to

740
00:34:18,570 --> 00:34:16,419
appear as it you know various different

741
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:18,580
forms you know I either you know say

742
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:21,130
like an old man or a woman or or what

743
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:22,560
have you

744
00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:24,910
it's interesting I don't know that I've

745
00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:26,710
come across that personally but

746
00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:29,020
certainly there are locations that I've

747
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:32,380
been in where we'll go in one time maybe

748
00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:34,450
with a medium or something on the team

749
00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:36,700
who will say oh you know there's a woman

750
00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:38,470
here she's a young woman and she's

751
00:34:42,030 --> 00:34:40,540
standing in the corner or something but

752
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:42,040
then maybe some other group might go in

753
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:44,020
later on and see something else

754
00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:46,510
and I've had some locations like that

755
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:47,950
where there's been sort of several

756
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:50,560
different I'll call them entities for

757
00:34:54,630 --> 00:34:52,330
lack of a better word at this part but

758
00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:54,640
several different ones and so to your

759
00:35:00,540 --> 00:34:57,220
point I wonder you know are we really

760
00:35:02,730 --> 00:35:00,550
looking at seven different entities or

761
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:02,740
is it possible as you say that maybe one

762
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:05,050
of them or two of them or whatever have

763
00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:08,170
the ability to change their shape like I

764
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:09,580
said I haven't see I haven't come across

765
00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:12,010
that in the personal experience but you

766
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:13,630
know if you look at some of the ghost

767
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:15,190
lore from around the world if you look

768
00:35:17,859 --> 00:35:16,010
at [\h__\h]

769
00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:17,869
Pam for instance and look at Japanese

770
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:20,060
goes they have first of all it's

771
00:35:23,890 --> 00:35:22,130
fascinating they have thousands of

772
00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:23,900
different kinds of Japanese ghosts

773
00:35:29,890 --> 00:35:26,750
but so many of them are shapeshifters

774
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:29,900
and a lot of times they'll actually

775
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:33,260
change into the form of a human and a

776
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:37,280
human known to the living so like an

777
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:40,850
impostor in a sense so you know that's

778
00:35:44,590 --> 00:35:42,890
happening in Japanese lore and Japanese

779
00:35:47,650 --> 00:35:44,600
ghost stories so what you're talking

780
00:35:50,770 --> 00:35:47,660
about is it's possible I think well you

781
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:50,780
also have say like especially the

782
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:53,720
English and Irish lore the fairies the

783
00:36:01,540 --> 00:35:57,650
fairies would use a glamour to to appear

784
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:01,550
as as different forms and like you said

785
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:04,490
sometimes as people that are familiar to

786
00:36:09,970 --> 00:36:07,970
the witness right I mean I have two

787
00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:09,980
different chapters in my book that are

788
00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:10,670
called

789
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:17,980
they are about some of these sort of

790
00:36:22,510 --> 00:36:19,940
beings that we wouldn't normally

791
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:22,520
consider shapeshifters it wouldn't be

792
00:36:27,580 --> 00:36:24,290
the normal stereotypical werewolf

793
00:36:29,830 --> 00:36:27,590
vampire talked a lot about fairies not

794
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:29,840
just in the in Ireland in England but in

795
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:33,440
Italy in Spain and they're always doing

796
00:36:37,060 --> 00:36:35,030
shape-shifting and then of course

797
00:36:39,099 --> 00:36:37,070
there's a whole range of aquatic

798
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:39,109
shapeshifters that you know it's a whole

799
00:36:44,740 --> 00:36:41,810
different story about seals coming to

800
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:44,750
shore and then shedding their skin and

801
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:47,270
out of that walks a man or a woman and

802
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:49,190
they live as human beings for as long as

803
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,480
their skins there and they come back

804
00:36:55,420 --> 00:36:52,640
actually literally put their skin back

805
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:55,430
on and go back into the ocean there's a

806
00:37:01,660 --> 00:36:57,170
lot of those kinds of stories from

807
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:01,670
cultures everywhere let's not even

808
00:37:07,420 --> 00:37:04,490
forget about the as suppose that the

809
00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:07,430
aliens because there's somebody shapes

810
00:37:11,849 --> 00:37:08,740
and sizes

811
00:37:16,420 --> 00:37:11,859
they must be transferred they transform

812
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:16,430
anywhere from in a you know human

813
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:19,520
looking alien to some little [\h__\h] guy

814
00:37:24,099 --> 00:37:21,770
all covered with hair and not only do

815
00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:24,109
the the the beings themselves change

816
00:37:29,830 --> 00:37:28,550
shape but the dams ships more morph from

817
00:37:32,590 --> 00:37:29,840
cigar-shaped

818
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:32,600
all shape it and and change in size from

819
00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:35,570
you know it to feet round to the size of

820
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,870
a huge brothership right right and you

821
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:40,160
know it's interesting because I talked

822
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:41,690
about that in my book I have a little

823
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:45,350
section about UFOs and aliens and I

824
00:37:51,070 --> 00:37:49,040
interviewed JM I never knows less I say

825
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:51,080
Banias I could be wrong but it's being

826
00:37:58,720 --> 00:37:55,370
an IAS he's a pretty well-known uou foe

827
00:38:03,040 --> 00:37:58,730
ologist he you have ologist it's hard to

828
00:38:04,810 --> 00:38:03,050
say you know but yes this interesting

829
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:04,820
theory that he said you know the human

830
00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:08,930
brain could not conceive of an alien

831
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:11,660
form so what he's saying is in these

832
00:38:16,270 --> 00:38:14,240
contacts that have been recorded about

833
00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:16,280
you know bumping up into an alien

834
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:18,470
encountering an alien he said that what

835
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:20,090
the brain will do when we know what the

836
00:38:25,150 --> 00:38:22,250
brain does it tries to compartmentalize

837
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:25,160
things so when it sees something that it

838
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:27,890
is totally cannot recognize it tries to

839
00:38:32,290 --> 00:38:30,290
put it in some category well it's kind

840
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:32,300
of human like I don't know maybe it's

841
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:34,250
kind of animal like yeah it looks kind

842
00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:35,930
of like a tree because doesn't know what

843
00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:37,670
to do with that we don't have any frame

844
00:38:45,070 --> 00:38:40,540
of reference so what he's saying is that

845
00:38:48,910 --> 00:38:45,080
the aliens are able to sort of pick up

846
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:48,920
on let's say our confusion and so what

847
00:38:51,550 --> 00:38:50,390
they try to do because we're trying to

848
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:51,560
he's saying they're trying to make

849
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:54,250
contact here what they do is they try to

850
00:39:00,220 --> 00:38:57,110
shift transform themselves into

851
00:39:03,220 --> 00:39:00,230
something that would be somewhat

852
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:03,230
recognizable and you know we talk to

853
00:39:07,210 --> 00:39:04,730
just talk about several different types

854
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:07,220
of aliens you know tall short whatever

855
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:09,680
but the fact that you can even say those

856
00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:13,130
words tall short green brown silver hair

857
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:15,950
no hair indicates that the brain did

858
00:39:21,790 --> 00:39:18,170
something to recognize it as something

859
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:21,800
more familiar even what there's even one

860
00:39:28,270 --> 00:39:24,370
that looks like the Michelin tire

861
00:39:30,010 --> 00:39:28,280
character right so so depending mainly

862
00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:30,020
on where you live with the culture

863
00:39:34,030 --> 00:39:31,550
you're coming from the environment you

864
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:34,040
live in what your worldviews are if you

865
00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:35,690
have an alien encounter it can be very

866
00:39:39,970 --> 00:39:37,430
different from somebody who has one in

867
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:39,980
some other continent who has different

868
00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:41,750
worldviews different environment

869
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:43,750
different belief system

870
00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:48,110
well it's it's very reminiscent of the

871
00:39:54,220 --> 00:39:52,430
the old gods how people would see them I

872
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,230
mean you have like the Greek mythology's

873
00:40:00,040 --> 00:39:57,200
of Zeus coming down and taking the form

874
00:40:03,490 --> 00:40:00,050
of various animals to to seduce women

875
00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:03,500
that he liked but you know people don't

876
00:40:07,170 --> 00:40:06,080
believe in the old gods anymore now they

877
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:07,180
believe in you know extraterrestrials

878
00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:09,830
coming out of flying saucers so I mean

879
00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:11,840
you know maybe the maybe the

880
00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:15,020
shapeshifters are the same characters

881
00:40:20,740 --> 00:40:17,990
they just take on new personas as time

882
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:20,750
goes by I think so and that's going back

883
00:40:25,150 --> 00:40:22,730
to somebody old art types again and

884
00:40:27,070 --> 00:40:25,160
you're right in my book I talk about you

885
00:40:29,590 --> 00:40:27,080
know the Greek culture Egyptian culture

886
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:29,600
with you know the sort of shape-shifting

887
00:40:35,530 --> 00:40:32,480
figures in there and yeah Seuss I have I

888
00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:35,540
think I counted in my book 15 different

889
00:40:41,650 --> 00:40:38,660
print types of animals that he

890
00:40:44,260 --> 00:40:41,660
transformed into including like an ant

891
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:44,270
you know I mean an ant really - and

892
00:40:48,910 --> 00:40:45,890
basically as you say to have sex with

893
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:48,920
women and it made me wonder about the

894
00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:50,690
women though I mean they'd rather have a

895
00:40:59,740 --> 00:40:55,750
swan I don't know where to go is that so

896
00:41:03,250 --> 00:40:59,750
yeah yeah you'd never think that a swan

897
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:03,260
would have a chance yeah I guess I guess

898
00:41:08,260 --> 00:41:06,710
tribes really have changed but this is

899
00:41:11,580 --> 00:41:08,270
sort of the old guys it's in fact I

900
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:11,590
talked about how the old gods when as

901
00:41:16,510 --> 00:41:14,000
technology develops and science develops

902
00:41:18,610 --> 00:41:16,520
and as humanity becomes more enlightened

903
00:41:20,770 --> 00:41:18,620
you know they put away the old gods the

904
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:20,780
Zeus and the whole Pantheon and the

905
00:41:24,940 --> 00:41:22,730
Norse gods and all that and they sort of

906
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:24,950
take the power to themselves they take

907
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:27,860
the power to themselves in forms of not

908
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:30,800
just religious clerics but also getting

909
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:32,720
back again to it you know which is

910
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:37,040
shamans sorcerers wizards people with

911
00:41:42,970 --> 00:41:40,160
sort of arcane knowledge that are you

912
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:42,980
know out there and and seemingly having

913
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:45,410
some powers of the gods as well if they

914
00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:49,310
can shape-shift that's pretty good so

915
00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:52,760
now when when you were researching this

916
00:41:59,049 --> 00:41:57,140
book I mean I know for a fact

917
00:42:00,819 --> 00:41:59,059
you know myself you know when I when I

918
00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:00,829
work on these kinds of subjects I mean

919
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:03,950
there's all kinds of of recent stories

920
00:42:10,029 --> 00:42:08,450
of shapeshifters and you know just you

921
00:42:12,849 --> 00:42:10,039
know some some kind of you know like

922
00:42:15,279 --> 00:42:12,859
bizarre creatures that really do seem to

923
00:42:17,259 --> 00:42:15,289
be coming out of a comic book or a movie

924
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:17,269
so I mean have you talked to anybody

925
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:20,510
that you know you're you're pretty sure

926
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:23,390
that they even though maybe their

927
00:42:26,859 --> 00:42:25,010
interpretation wasn't quite right that

928
00:42:28,980 --> 00:42:26,869
they did have some kind of unusual

929
00:42:31,210 --> 00:42:28,990
experience along those lines

930
00:42:34,170 --> 00:42:31,220
right there's been I mean there's been

931
00:42:38,620 --> 00:42:34,180
so many modern reports there's one from

932
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,630
whole England from just 2014 so we're

933
00:42:44,529 --> 00:42:41,359
talking five years ago mm-hmm at which

934
00:42:48,430 --> 00:42:44,539
people were seeing this they called it a

935
00:42:50,799 --> 00:42:48,440
like a huge dog but they said it stood

936
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:50,809
about seven feet tall so that's a really

937
00:42:57,370 --> 00:42:54,410
really big dog and on hind legs and they

938
00:43:00,910 --> 00:42:57,380
saw this thing in a certain area around

939
00:43:03,849 --> 00:43:00,920
Hall one witness said he saw the thing

940
00:43:06,279 --> 00:43:03,859
run and jump an 8-foot fence with like

941
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:06,289
you know no effort at all somebody else

942
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:08,569
said they saw leap across a 30-foot

943
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:12,049
canal an old canal water and they kind

944
00:43:14,819 --> 00:43:13,369
of recognized it which was the

945
00:43:18,549 --> 00:43:14,829
interesting thing they gave it a name

946
00:43:22,690 --> 00:43:18,559
they called it old striker and it turns

947
00:43:24,970 --> 00:43:22,700
out that old striker had been seen this

948
00:43:27,249 --> 00:43:24,980
particular beasts had been seeing

949
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:27,259
decades before in England as well and

950
00:43:31,269 --> 00:43:30,170
people were convinced because of what

951
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:31,279
they saw that they're looking at a

952
00:43:34,569 --> 00:43:32,390
werewolf

953
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:34,579
so you know you've got that kind of

954
00:43:42,759 --> 00:43:37,490
stuff going I hadn't there's a great

955
00:43:45,099 --> 00:43:42,769
story from South Africa that is 1987 so

956
00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:45,109
it's a little bit older but it's this

957
00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:49,069
man who was in his in his house and he

958
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:51,140
heard the scratching and thumping and

959
00:43:55,930 --> 00:43:53,930
banging on his front door so he grabbed

960
00:43:57,609 --> 00:43:55,940
an axe just because he was you know

961
00:43:59,529 --> 00:43:57,619
didn't know what it was and he opened

962
00:44:02,710 --> 00:43:59,539
the door and he said there was this huge

963
00:44:05,140 --> 00:44:02,720
bat just hanging from the rafters so he

964
00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:05,150
started striking at it with the axe then

965
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:07,640
he ran all off to get help when he came

966
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:10,010
back with his little posse he

967
00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:12,950
found this big large bat dragging itself

968
00:44:17,110 --> 00:44:15,590
across the ground on tour defense so

969
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:17,120
while his posse stood there and watched

970
00:44:21,550 --> 00:44:19,250
he whacked it again with the axe and

971
00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:21,560
killed it but now here's what it gets

972
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:23,300
interesting because everybody crowds

973
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:25,010
around two seals you know what this

974
00:44:29,770 --> 00:44:28,130
thing was and some people say this is

975
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:29,780
all reported in the newspaper

976
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:32,000
South African newspaper some people said

977
00:44:39,490 --> 00:44:36,410
they saw a small donkey they saw a

978
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:39,500
winged beast but what they all agreed on

979
00:44:42,490 --> 00:44:42,050
and this is this is really work towards

980
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:42,500
crazy

981
00:44:47,950 --> 00:44:44,510
they all agree that as it was laying

982
00:44:51,540 --> 00:44:47,960
there that it transformed it transformed

983
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:51,550
into the shape of a human well the child

984
00:44:59,290 --> 00:44:55,490
with an adult head then continued to

985
00:45:02,280 --> 00:44:59,300
transform into a shape of an old man who

986
00:45:05,350 --> 00:45:02,290
they recognized as the village shaman

987
00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:05,360
who said that he had powers to

988
00:45:11,470 --> 00:45:09,140
shape-shift so that's a pretty

989
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:11,480
incredible story and the man who kindled

990
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:16,250
the bat child donkey source of her you

991
00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:17,570
know went to trial he stood trial for

992
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:18,470
manslaughter

993
00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:21,440
and he was convicted the judge said that

994
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:23,390
you know he found it hard to believe

995
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:26,240
that he could not distinguish between a

996
00:45:34,210 --> 00:45:31,850
man and a bat hmm wow that's great stuff

997
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:34,220
great stuff and a fascinating book as

998
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:36,800
well unfortunately we are almost out of

999
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:38,890
time so I want to give you a chance to

1000
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:41,570
have you let our audience know where

1001
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:43,280
they can find your book your other books

1002
00:45:48,850 --> 00:45:46,310
and where if you have like an on the

1003
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:48,860
online site and where they can find out

1004
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:51,170
more about you absolutely the best way

1005
00:45:56,890 --> 00:45:54,290
is my website which is John ketubah com

1006
00:45:58,840 --> 00:45:56,900
that's pretty easy you can get any of my

1007
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,850
books through my website but they're

1008
00:46:03,370 --> 00:46:01,280
also in bookstores and shapeshifters is

1009
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:03,380
brand new so it's been out about a month

1010
00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:05,060
now so you should be finding it in

1011
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:08,390
bookstores yet if all that fails all my

1012
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:11,350
books are on Amazon Barnes and noble.com

1013
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:14,000
they're easy to find if you just plug in

1014
00:46:16,780 --> 00:46:15,170
a title in the internet you can find

1015
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:16,790
them and like I say they're in

1016
00:46:22,210 --> 00:46:19,370
bookstores too and on my website there's

1017
00:46:23,250 --> 00:46:22,220
a blog that has a lot of metaphysical

1018
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:23,260
paranormal

1019
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:25,450
escapades in there as well as my

1020
00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:27,130
schedule of appearances I'm going to be

1021
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:29,260
doing a lot more about this book I'll be

1022
00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:31,450
in Canada later this year I'll be in the

1023
00:46:35,099 --> 00:46:34,030
Republic of Georgia in September which I

1024
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:35,109
don't like but should any of your

1025
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:38,430
viewers will be there but I'll be there

1026
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:41,609
well anyway I hope I hope your book

1027
00:46:47,970 --> 00:46:46,930
shape shifts into dollar bills or twenty

1028
00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:47,980
dollar bills because I don't think

1029
00:46:52,830 --> 00:46:49,960
dollar bills will take you to Georgia I

1030
00:46:54,570 --> 00:46:52,840
wouldn't say anyway I want to thank you

1031
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:54,580
for being on the scene a wonderful show

1032
00:46:58,859 --> 00:46:57,250
we covered a lot of ground a lot of

1033
00:47:02,160 --> 00:46:58,869
animals a lot of strange different

1034
00:47:05,310 --> 00:47:02,170
things and I wanna tell people of course

1035
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:05,320
to visit our YouTube channel mr. UFO

1036
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:08,530
secret files and of course the archive

1037
00:47:14,820 --> 00:47:12,220
over here at KC o R and Thank You Tina

1038
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:14,830
thank you Tim thank you Peter

1039
00:47:20,099 --> 00:47:17,530
Thank You Helen Thank You Carol and one

1040
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:20,109
and all and good night to our many

1041
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:22,690
listeners across the planet and perhaps

1042
00:47:34,609 --> 00:47:30,650
you've been listening to exploring the

1043
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:34,619
bazaar with hosts Timothy Becky panty

1044
00:47:40,789 --> 00:47:37,890
Swartz they're taking back the night by

1045
00:47:43,339 --> 00:47:40,799
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

1046
00:47:47,150 --> 00:47:43,349
search of the truly bizarre and totally

1047
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:47,160
unexplained with you as their cold

1048
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:49,670
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1049
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:54,150
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

1050
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:55,350
radio

1051
00:48:01,250 --> 00:47:57,810
for more information on exploring the

1052
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:01,260
bazaar and hosts Timothy Becky and Tim

1053
00:48:07,220 --> 00:48:04,110
Schwartz check out their kco our digital

1054
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:07,230
radio network follow their YouTube

1055
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:13,440
channel @m r UFO 1100 explore the